Carl Bildt on a panel at Stockholm Internet Forum on May 22, 2013.

1:18 into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stDl6ovmwrE

Carl Bildt: Differentiation between the debate of freedom of expression, freedom of information and surveillance. The surveillance techonologies that are there, including this country by the way, they do not limit in any sort of way freedom of expression or information.

Because of the very fact that when you want to have... If our security service, because we do have one, want to tap the telephone of someone [there is] due process, they certainly don't want to expose the fact that they are tapping because that would limit their ability to get the information. So surveillance technologies are exceedingly discreet, they don't limit anything. There are other problems associated with those. But it's a separate set of issues. From the freedom issues.

Surveillance issues is the nature of the regime and what are the legalitites for surveillance and for intelligence activites which are also there on the net. Surveillance is normally... when you use that word it's more domestic. Intelligence, roughly the same technologies by the way, but use them in direction of other countries.

Moderator: What I'm hearing is it's alright for us but it's not alright for bad people.

Carl Bildt: Which is... weeell... roughly correct [laughter from moderator, CB and audience] No, no, I mean, all countries more or less have them. In Sweden for example, if you want to do sort of surveillance, if our security service wants to do surveillance, or the police, they can do it when there's a founded suspicion of a very grave crime. It used to be espionage as... a copule of more of those. They have to go to a court, secret proceedings has to be set, but proceedings, and then they can do it. And then it's reported every year, the number of such cases. If that is done by [unhearable] intelligence agencies versus foreign objects, there is also separate legal procedure of how to do it. And parliamentary oversight and things like that. I think procedures are somewhat different in some other countries, to put it mildly. So there's a difference, not to be too polemical, but there is a difference between good states and somewhat less good states.

Moderator: So it's about how you tell the difference, I suppose.

Carl Bildt: Yes, but you see it. It's like sort of...

Moderator: It's like an elephant, you know it when you see it.

Carl Bildt: Well, there are pornography, I mean, it's difficult to define but you know it when you see it.